Toadying to ceremomy leaders limited to once per month?

[Torben]

Agreed that there should be some change but there should be some benefit from attending more than one ceremony. Maybe second ceremony attended gives a +1 to attempts to cult promotion that month.

A nice way of doing it would be to allow attendees to toady/receive toady to/from each other but not from npcs. You could also restrict eligible ceremonies to holy/high holy days. In this case maybe give the +1 to attempts to cult promotion that month as well as a few CPs.

Maybe also restrict toadying to npcs up to +3 more Charisma than the player character. Or even better not allow toadying to npcs at all but give a higher base cp benefit for attending ceremonies.

Since above was a bit rambling thought I would make a (hopefully) concise suggestion:-

* Rather than have ceremonies available each week just have ceremonies on holy days/high holy days of each cult.
* Each cult has five holy days and one high holy day each year (one in each Gloranthan season). These should be fixed on the calendar and last a week (a sort of festival).
* There should be opportunities to toady to and receive toadies from other player characters. Limited toadying to NPC ceremony leaders (they will only accept toadying from Initiates or above of CHA not lower than 6 below their CHA).
* Attending a holy day gives a +1 bonus on promotion in that cult if rolling POW or less on 1D6.
* CPs for attending a holy day should be equal to POW

Hopefully this will make cult ceremonies a really special occasion!

Oh dear, it seems poor Ondureen must be plagued by the same voices in the head that are affecting Evil Erik! May I, on behalf of the silent majority, reiterate the case for no change to the current rules. The rules seem perfectly fine, no need to tinker with them.

[Ivarenna]

Agreed that there should be some change but there should be some benefit from attending more than one ceremony. Maybe second ceremony attended gives a +1 to attempts to cult promotion that month.

A nice way of doing it would be to allow attendees to toady/receive toady to/from each other but not from npcs. You could also restrict eligible ceremonies to holy/high holy days. In this case maybe give the +1 to attempts to cult promotion that month as well as a few CPs.

Maybe also restrict toadying to npcs up to +3 more Charisma than the player character. Or even better not allow toadying to npcs at all but give a higher base cp benefit for attending ceremonies.

Since above was a bit rambling thought I would make a (hopefully) concise suggestion:-

* Rather than have ceremonies available each week just have ceremonies on holy days/high holy days of each cult.
* Each cult has five holy days and one high holy day each year (one in each Gloranthan season). These should be fixed on the calendar and last a week (a sort of festival).
* There should be opportunities to toady to and receive toadies from other player characters. Limited toadying to NPC ceremony leaders (they will only accept toadying from Initiates or above of CHA not lower than 6 below their CHA).
* Attending a holy day gives a +1 bonus on promotion in that cult if rolling POW or less on 1D6.
* CPs for attending a holy day should be equal to POW

Hopefully this will make cult ceremonies a really special occasion!

Oh dear, it seems poor Ondureen must be plagued by the same voices in the head that are affecting Evil Erik! May I, on behalf of the silent majority, reiterate the case for no change to the current rules. The rules seem perfectly fine, no need to tinker with them.

Dear Broar

I appreciate you are a god and all that. But with great power comes great responsibility.

We all get that with the rules as they are doubling up as an initiate works pretty well. And if the rules change suddenly there is not much to do other than accrue a 1/4 point here in healing or a 1/4 point there in cult lore, vaguely hoping that your priest will grant you leave or that you might get promoted to god talker one day. So in many ways it's not really fair on you if the rules suddenly change.

Bit life isn't fair. You know that Erik's point is valid. It's too easy getting CPs by attending multiple ceremonies each month. This is out of keeping with the rest of the rules which make progression quite tough. And in particular trumps holding a party which reduces player interaction.

So go on, do the right thing and take one for the team. Support Erik on this, just for a change!

[grumbold99]

I don't think toadying to the priest is derailing things excessively. Erik and Quatlu both scored 40+ CPs this month and despite both making multiple appearances at temples, the majority of those were generated by other activities and cost significant money. Unless their supply of money is surprisingly large this is unsustainable and the amount of CPs gained from the priest is dropping every time.

With a relatively small pool of players, throwing parties are inherently a poor and risky way to generate CPs. You need everyone in your social circle to want to show up to generate maybe 4-5 cps, and that's pretty unlikely with people off to the front, engaged in other activities, reluctant to appear somewhere that will trigger a duel or just having better things to do than generate a CP or two for themselves that won't promote their status. Even so, it won't be long before carefully planning one of those parties will be more beneficial to the high status characters than ceremonies.

Given the mortality rate of characters, it seems a positive thing that social advancement is initially quite rapid for those at the lower end of the social scale.

[Harold]

Parties, well most people do like Parties.

However, there is a possible side effect to consider, if as has been suggested, Parties will be seen as a replacement to Temples. Could that then lead to more duelling in game? As players characters would have to interact more than is currently the case. Is there the danger that Saturday nights in down town Boldhome becomes more dangerous than spending a month at the front?

Would it be possible to suggest that the effects of Toadying to the same Character/NPC for second, third or fourth time in a row /same month bring in reduced CPs? Either in % terms or a pre-set minus to CP gained total?

[Erik]

Parties, well most people do like Parties.

However, there is a possible side effect to consider, if as has been suggested, Parties will be seen as a replacement to Temples. Could that then lead to more duelling in game? As players characters would have to interact more than is currently the case. Is there the danger that Saturday nights in down town Boldhome becomes more dangerous than spending a month at the front?

Would it be possible to suggest that the effects of Toadying to the same Character/NPC for second, third or fourth time in a row /same month bring in reduced CPs? Either in % terms or a pre-set minus to CP gained total?

Remember that this is an En Garde game, There is SUPPOSED to be duelling, that is why there are so many enemy regiments, tribes and cults.

[Rufus]

Noting the comment below by Erik

Remember that this is an En Garde game, There is SUPPOSED to be duelling, that is why there are so many enemy regiments, tribes and cults.

[/quote]

Not sure that all agree ..... I believe one noticeable exception uses the word "psychopath" when a duel is suggested!

[Harold]

Parties, well most people do like Parties.

However, there is a possible side effect to consider, if as has been suggested, Parties will be seen as a replacement to Temples. Could that then lead to more duelling in game? As players characters would have to interact more than is currently the case. Is there the danger that Saturday nights in down town Boldhome becomes more dangerous than spending a month at the front?

Would it be possible to suggest that the effects of Toadying to the same Character/NPC for second, third or fourth time in a row /same month bring in reduced CPs? Either in % terms or a pre-set minus to CP gained total?

Remember that this is an En Garde game, There is SUPPOSED to be duelling, that is why there are so many enemy regiments, tribes and cults.

Get your point about it being a game that can possibly involve a bit of duelling as a part of in game activities. I was just trying to point out that the game balance needs to be thought about. Would there be a greater chance that lower-level characters getting into Duels with more developed higher-level characters & getting killed/injured before the player has a chance to develop said character?
Duelling is a part of the game, agreed. It is though only a part of the whole game.

[Harold]

Maybe it's possible to look at the question from a different perspective? Instead of making Temple visits less attractive, could it be possible to make parties more worthwhile having? Putting them on a par with one another?

[Erik]

Parties, well most people do like Parties.

However, there is a possible side effect to consider, if as has been suggested, Parties will be seen as a replacement to Temples. Could that then lead to more duelling in game? As players characters would have to interact more than is currently the case. Is there the danger that Saturday nights in down town Boldhome becomes more dangerous than spending a month at the front?

Would it be possible to suggest that the effects of Toadying to the same Character/NPC for second, third or fourth time in a row /same month bring in reduced CPs? Either in % terms or a pre-set minus to CP gained total?

Remember that this is an En Garde game, There is SUPPOSED to be duelling, that is why there are so many enemy regiments, tribes and cults.

Get your point about it being a game that can possibly involve a bit of duelling as a part of in game activities. I was just trying to point out that the game balance needs to be thought about. Would there be a greater chance that lower-level characters getting into Duels with more developed higher-level characters & getting killed/injured before the player has a chance to develop said character?
Duelling is a part of the game, agreed. It is though only a part of the whole game.

I think people are a bit scared of the idea of duels (I know character certainly is!). In most En Garde games I have played, duels are relatively common, but deaths are relatively rare. They usually occur because a player has neglected to give surrender orders. If worried about dying, just order that you surrender with a reasonably high Endurance left.

[Puckohue]

There's a lot of good ideas and good points here.

What do we want? We want more player character interaction.

• Temple ceremonies offer no player interaction, and give high CP gain (for lower CHA characters).
• Private parties offer player interaction, and give CP gain, but (usually) less than temple ceremonies. They also involve the risk of duelling (which is a good thing as it's player character interaction, but can deter some characters).

So either we make temple ceremonies less attractive or more interactive, or the private parties more attractive.

At a glance, it seems the easiest solution would be to make the temple ceremonies involve player character interaction somehow:

• Limit toadying to PCs. Problems: too few (none atm) PCs able to lead ceremonies. Too few player characters per cult.
• Activate tribal hostilities at ceremonies. Meeting a tribal enemy at a ceremony would give both player characters cause for duel (so not spontaneous duels as this would be too weird, but giving cause). I like this idea a lot, as the ceremonies lack any interaction atm.

To make private parties more attractive:

• High CHA NPCs could be invited so there's someone high(er) CHA to toady to. This could be named NPCs or the NPC holder of a specific appointment/rank. I need to look at other En Garde! house rules where this is an option. High CHA NPCs wouldn't just come running if some low CHA character invited them to the Red Beaver. This is also an idea I like a lot, but I don't think it solves the "problem" in itself.

To make cult ceremonies less attractive:

• Limit the number of ceremonies available each turn.
• Limit the CP gain from consecutive ceremonies.